Wednesday, April 04, 2012

Oh, Hi. I'm the Sidekick.

In case you hadn't heard, Mark Waid is thinking of doing some digital comics.

Heh.

In a small way I've been aiding Mark as he's developed these ideas for the last three years.  Any long-time reader of my blog knows I'm a systems geek.  I coined the phrase 4GM, comparing new media models to asymmetrical warfare.  Wrote about Netflix taking over TV back in 2007 or so.  I'm fascinated by the way older content distributors and providers continually confuse the distribution system with the content -- hell, the WGA has chalked up some truly epic bungles with that mindset.

The only thing that's kept me from larger experimentation with alternate medium delivery is that, ironically, I'm running a TV show.  Granted, it's one of the only independently produced TV shows in the US, but it's still distributed straight into your cable-box old-school style.

So, instead, I've been kibitzing Mark during three years of shared lunches.  Mark had his own reasons for getting into digital.  My interest in a new comics model came out of my work on trying to figure out new TV distribution models.  Looking at other mediums,  I kept hearing about how digitally distributed, serialized comics on the web wouldn't work ...

... and I kept looking at Penny Arcade and PvP and my personal favorite, Something Positive, and seeing independent humans making a living.  Better than a living, in some cases.

"But John," I'd hear, "those are three, maybe four panel gag comics made for niche audiences, which only support individual creators, not companies."*

Yes, they are.  They are serialized narratives combining writing and pictures which allow their creators to make a living telling stories.  Which just happen to be digitally delivered.

If one man can kill a bear, any man can kill  a bear, so to speak. I have to admit, Mark's got a multi-pronged business and artistic approach to this new model. I'm still humping the same idea I've been obsessed with for years -- the democratization of the creative industry.**

Now, of course, indie comics take years to build up an audience.  And it's grueling work, with a high risk of failure.  Sure.  That's called capitalism, and it's awesome, and please show me the document guaranteeing your mass-market comic won't also flame-out no matter how much promotion it gets.

But although the webcomics gave us the first plausible premise (and now you should be reading John Robb's work on open-source warfare), Mark wanted to go even further.  What were the artistic merits of moving to digital as a delivery system?

Gutting the cost of entry allowed for more artistic experimentation and variety, of course.  But he's been doing this for 25+ years, and he's a shitload more ambitious than I am.  That's when he found Balak, and we began to trade this graphic back and forth obsessively:

about DIGITAL COMICS by ~Balak01 on deviantART

This work began to nail down some of the rules of digital comics.  Mark was the one who actually quantified most of these over the course of endless emails -- I'm just good at pithy summaries.

1.) Like paper comics, the reader should control the pace of the information in digital comics.

2.) Using layers, the creator can pull focus and create additional dimensions of storytelling, including time and subjective perception.

Motion Comics, those filthy bastards, fell into the trap of mistaking medium for content.  The digital screen is made for TV and movies.  Therefore, comics on a digital screen should look like TV and movies. Add animation and voices!

Hence, monstrous hybrid.

If, instead, you just treat the screen as an odd-shaped page which can be instantly updated and is conveniently in almost every home and office on earth, you get a much more accurate idea of how to proceed.

Of course, none of this is revolutionary -- I'm just tracking how we hacked away at it, amateurishly and arduously, over three years.  Along the way, the Kindle started hitting critical mass, and we tore that model apart.  Despite there being some comic successes on the Kindle -- manga in particular transferred well -- formatting issues prevented comic artists from taking full potential of that distribution channel.  Of course, now that the new Kindle Fire is moving them over to an HTML-based publishing model, things should get much easier.  Pablo Defindini has done outstanding work demonstrating how comics might use responsive design on the new readers.

 

But the Kindle lesson, in the rise of the Kindle-only million-seller author, was a valuable one: you don't have to be famous to make a living telling stories.  You just have to be famous enough, with a devoted enough following.

Then the iPad hit.  Comixology did a great job of getting out front on the tablet comics market.  But they were forced to figure out a way to convert pages laid out for a larger space down to that seven-odd inch screen.  That led to "guided panel view" which was pretty spiffy.  However, in TV and movies, we call that "pan and scan", and no one's fond of it.  Because it's not how the writer and artist meant for you to experience the story.

This tied in to another discussion we were having, summarized by Mark in an email:

3.) "We live in a wide-screen world.  Use it."

Most long-form story-telling comics on the web were essentially back-door physical world comics. The Blind Ferret guys (very smart humans), Warren Ellis' Freak Angels, all of them were laid out for easy reproduction in a classically formatted portrait alignment hard-copy publication.  They used the screen to distribute, but they did not use the canvas of the screen. (This is all a pretentious way of complaining about scrolling down when reading each page of Freak Angels).

And sure, you want to be able to publish that hard-copy some day.  But again, that weird-sized widescreen potential comics page is in almost every house and office in the Western World.  There's no inherent advantage to portrait view.  Shouldn't the more widely distributed canvas have the artistic advantage?

So we experimented with resolutions and orientations.  Friends of mine, Geoff Thorne and Todd Harris, developed some sample art, 8 pages of a comic with chuffah dialogue, to lock down landscape presentation, art resolution, a bunch of the artist-y numbers.  Web designer Gary Henderson developed our first story software models, trying to incorporate additional materials such as scripts and layouts into the primary presentation.  At the same time Mark chatted with artist Jeremy Rock, who was experimenting with how to create image flow on landscape pages which then seamlessly joined into readable portrait pages for the hard-copy phase of the comic's life.  While I screwed around with e-readers and grind-it-out bullshit, Mark had Jeremy re-draw one of his BOOM! stories, "Luther", experimenting with the ideas of information flow (the staggered captions, etc.) We then plugged it into the reader, and bob's your uncle, a creatively satisfying longform story made for the screen.  Not the first, not the best, but a reproducible model, done as a layered pdf.  (None of this was rocket science, but it was ... fiddly.)

About this time, Joe Quesada at Marvel decided to drive the company much more aggressively into digital comics, and Mark began working with those lads.  Mark changed the way he developed and wrote comics to take advantage of the new style.  Momentum shifted, and now you have the the great -- and I mean goddam GREAT -- Infinite Comics experiment at Marvel.

Meanwhile, I was screwing with distribution, trying to live up to one of my pet theories about media:

4.) Information should be dumb.

By dumb I mean "as platform independent as possible."  Your comic should work well in a pdf reader on a tablet or laptop or desktop computer, on a website, in an app.  Your workflow should allow you to easily slot your comic into as many different platforms as seamlessly as possible. As cool as that Infinite Comic Nova comic is, there's nothing in there you can't do with a bone-dumb pdf- reader.  It's all about execution.  A reconception of how you can tell stories graphically now that you can experiment with layers and time.

Also, there should be different ways to make a living at this -- you shouldn't have to be waiting around, gambling on prestige print collection, before you can make a living telling your story.  That's the stuff we're still working at now, and will be the subject of future posts and some of Mark's future announcements.

So that's the rough version of how we got here.  Mark's the one driving this, with the able Lori Matsumoto handling the technical stuff, while I'll continue to fiddle over here in the corner.  We'll be referencing a lot of very smart humans who've been working on (and succeeding at) this for much longer than we've been playing at it.  Some of this is going to work, some of it is going to fail miserably, but we'll show you all the spinning gears as we go.

Mark's been gracious enough to include one of my new webcomics on his site when it launches.  Mine will be nowhere near as artistically mature as his work.  It'll be a comic, written and formatted for widescreen, serialized for online delivery, but not as aggressive in playing with narrative flow.  Frankly, I don't have the chops for what Mark's doing.  But it'll be fun as hell.  I hope we manage to work out enough of the kinks to help you make your comic someday, tell your story.














*New rule -- if your own model is based on selling books to an audience which numbers less than one-tench of Wil Wheaton's Twitter followers, you do not get to call anybody else "niche."

** I was a stand-up comic, the ultimate freelancer, hopping from club to club, booking my own gigs.  That experience burned freelancer instinct into my DNA: how many gigs in how many weeks to make my nut?  To pay the mortgage, to put a little away?  I love metrics.  What can be measured can be managed, etc. etc.





52 comments:

IMForeman said...

Thanks for this, John. I've been developing an idea for a self-published superhero comic for about 10 years... basically developing the art skills to pull it off, and working out the story. I think I'm probably less than a year from actually launching it.

Right now I'm leaning toward a webcomic distribution model with 1 page a week.

Since, however, there are no guarantees on success, I have to find a steady day job first.

If anybody would like to see how my art skills have been progressing, here is my DeviantArt site.

I really feel I'm on the cusp of getting this going. I just need to get a job so I can live while doing it.

IMForeman said...

Sorry, got the link wrong. Here's the correct one:

DeviantArt

mahlookma said...

You have excellent taste.

True story.

Cunningham said...

John -

You should combine all of our Google conversations about this into a single PDF.

And to think this all started when we were having drinks back at SDCC... oy! So glad you and Mark have taken the reigns on this.

Calla said...

Hey, look at that: John talks the talk and walks the walk. You just continue to impress.

I read a little bit about the newest version of Windows in development - it looks like they're going with horizontal scrolling instead of vertical (or, maybe, the option of either) ... horizontal doesn't suit current mice with scroll wheels, but you could make it work for pretty much any other hardware configuration out there.

And, if you're planning on a wide-screen layout for the comics, are you also thinking about horizontal scrolling or left/right (instead of top/bottom) page turning?

It sure is interesting living in the future with people who want to live even further into the future. Go you (and that non-sidekick guy)!

Sarah W said...

I'm not particularly qualified to comment on the technological or artistic aspects of most of this, but I spend a lot of time reading webcomics and everything makes sense to me.

I totally agree with you: They are serialized narratives combining writing and pictures which allow their creators to make a living telling stories. Which just happen to be digitally delivered. And that the Blind Ferret guys are brilliant.

So is Mark Waid. If nothing else, those odd-shaped panels are plain, simple, hand-slapped-to-forehead genius.

J-Po said...

Lori's working on this? No wonder she's been too busy to grab dinner.

Theliel said...

Good to see you are still alive.

Good to see more entertainment - go Mark Waid.

Mike Cane said...

>>>Despite there being some comic successes on the Kindle -- manga in particular transferred well -- formatting issues prevented comic artists from taking full potential of that distribution channel.

Comics on the Kindle have been hampered by delivery charges (yes, those do exist!). Comics files are huge and it's not economically possible to come in with a low price -- like a small eBook file -- due to those charges.

As for PDF... there's no big store that sells them. You can't sell them through Amazon or Apple or B&N or Kobo.

And I hope you've taken into account 1024 x 768 "classic" iPad vs Retina. Have you seen Retina yet? It's bloody print quality and changes everything.

All that said, good luck. This will be interesting to follow.

Gareth-Michael Skarka said...

Mike wrote: "As for PDF... there's no big store that sells them. You can't sell them through Amazon or Apple or B&N or Kobo."

Not perhaps "Big", but medium-sized -- there's DriveThru Comics, which was the first:

http://comics.drivethrustuff.com/?

Shawn said...

I do wish when I started Clockworks that I did the thing in Portrait orientation, and figured out how to make that work for the eventual print compilation. My original plan of every update being half a page died out pretty much instantly.

Kung Fu said...

Thanks for the sharing valuable information.

sdre said...

This is really a good blog. As a fashion lady, I love louis vuitton sunglasses and louis vuitton handbags very much. I am interested in white louis vuitton handbags most.

DENICE said...

Thanks for sharing the information. I am a retired person & reside in AZ. I was suffering from long illness & now I am at final stage of illness. So I am looking for palliative care to reduce both physical pain and emotional suffering. I approached global community communications alliance Medical Institute. It is a nonprofit organization & helped me to recover. They also provide Reiki therapy, aromatherapy, reflexology, ion Cleanse, and palliative care. I think they are doing good & helping many patients at a cheaper cost.

price per head online said...

I am thoroughly convinced in this said post. I am currently searching for ways in which I could enhance my knowledge in this said topic you have posted here

windows 7 professional product key said...

What is regarded the most windows 7 professional product key effective kind of reward? Your windows 7 ultimate activation key safest as well as surest approach is to office 2010 procuct key make available gourmet gift baskets. With a general handle,Purchase office 2010 product key gift baskets collection most of the people. They are often stuffed with goods relevant to a particular sort of person or a class.

justin hoffman said...

Hello friends, nice post and nice urging commented at this place, I am in fact enjoying by these.
Website Design Las Vegas

mebel jepara minimalis said...

jepara kota ukir
kota jepara
kota mebel jepara
mebel indonesia
mebel jepara murah

mebel jepara said...

mebel jepara
mebel jati
furniture jepara
furniture jati

kursi tamu
Jual kursi tamu
kursi tamu minimalis

jual tempat tidur
tempat tidur anak
tempat tidur minimalis
tempat tidur bayi
kamar set

wisata karimunjawa
liburan karimunjawa
paket karimunjawa

jual tempat tidur
tempat tidur anak
tempat tidur minimalis
tempat tidur bayi
kamar set

pintu rumah
kusen jati
pintu jati
pintu minimalis

mebel jepara
mebel jati
furniture jepara
furniture jati
furniture minimalis
mebel minimalis

meja belajar
jual meja belajar
meja belajar anak
meja belajar minimalis
indonesian furniture

jual furniture said...

I am thoroughly convinced in this said post. I am currently searching for ways in which I could enhance my knowledge in this said topic you have posted here.



kursi makan
kursi pantai
kursi tamu minimalis
emari buku
meja belajar
ranjang bayi
set kursi akan
sofa klasik
sofa minimalis
sofa tamu louis
sofa tamu mewah
sofa wedding
kamar tidur minimalis
kamar tidur mewah
kamar tidur anak
gajebo

De Nature said...

Your website is very nice. I am very happy visiting and reading your informative and helpful content

obat sipilis ampuh
obat sipilis ampuh
obat sipilis ampuh
obat sipilis ampuh
obat sipilis herbal

mebel jepara said...

mebel jepara
furniture jepara
Meja Kantor
set meja kantor]
mebel jepara

tempat tidur
jual tempat tidur
tempat tidur anak
tempat tidur minimalis
tempat tidur ukiran
tempat tidur set
set tempat tidur

Meja Makan
Meja Makan mewah
set Meja Makan
Meja Makan jati

paket karimun jawa murah said...

Just want to say your article is astounding. The clarity in your post is simply spectacular and i can assume you are an expert on this field.
Regard: Ayo wisata liburan bersama keluarga, dengan mengikuti paket wisata karimun jawa kita yang termasuk biro wisata karimun jawa berpengalaman karena memberikan paket karimun jawa murah, ada paket backpacker karimunjawa, paket tour 4hari 3malam 3hari 2malam 2hari 1malam, paket karimun jawa kami sangat memuaskan dan berkesan, info tour jadwal kapal ke karimunjava island, Tapi bila anda ingin belanja online mebel jati atau mebel jepara or furniture jepara yang bisa anda jadikan pilihan karena ada harga perabot murah dari kami yang juga menjual ukiran jati, kursi tamu meja makan murah almari jati bufet lemari jam bangku minimalis sofa ukir bale-bale kayu dipan antik, terimakasih

Jasa Seo said...

nice article...

Obat Bius
Obat Bius Wanita
Obat Bius Cair
Obat Penggemuk Badan
Obat Aborsi
Obat Perangsang
Alat Bantu Sex

obat kutil Kelamin No 1 said...

Salam Kenal Aja Gan

arie fever said...

Kabar Berita Kpu hari ini di Liputan6.com
Kabar liga champion hari ini di Liputan6.com
Kabar capres jokowi hari ini di Liputan6.com
Kabar timnas indonesia hari ini di Liputan6.com
Kabar partai hanura hari ini di Liputan6.com
Kabar prabowo subianto hari ini di Liputan6.com
Kabar partai politik hari ini di Liputan6.com
Kabar calon presiden 2014 hari ini di Liputan6.com
Kabar jadwal piala dunia hari ini di Liputan6.com
Kabar klasemen liga inggris hari ini di Liputan6.com

paul sam said...

Develop success from failures. Discouragement and failure are two of the surest stepping stones to success.
Electrician Marbella

toko furniture minimalis said...

toko furniture
toko mebel
toko minimalis
toko jati
jati minimalis
jual furniture
furniture jepara
mebel minimalis
mebel jepara
mebel minimalis murah
furniture jati jepara
furniture jati
jual furniture minimalis
jepara minimalis
toko mebel jepara
jual furniture murah

Obat kutil kelamin herbal said...

Obat kutil kelamin| cara mengobati kutil kelamin
cara mengobati kutil kelamin | obat kutil kelamin
obat kutil kelamin herbal | kutil kelamin
obat kutil kelamin | cara mengobati kutil kelamin
obat kutil di kelamin
cara cara mengobati kutil kelamin
obat kutil kelamin
obat bintik bintik di kelamin ciri ciri wasir | obat ambeien
obat wasir herbal
obat wasir dan ambeien
obat solusi pengobatan wasir
obat wasir di apotik
gejala wasir | obat wasir

teguh wibowo said...

obat kutil kelamin
obat kutil kelamin herbal
obat kutil kelamin tradisional
cara mengobati kutil kelamin
obat kutil kelamin
obat kutil kelamin herbal
obat kutil kelamin tradisional
cara mengobati kutil kelamin
obat kutil kelamin
obat kutil kelamin herbal
obat kutil kelamin tradisional
cara mengobati kutil kelamin
Obat wasir
Obat wasir herbal
Obat wasir tradisional
cara mengobati wasir
Obat wasir
Obat wasir herbal
Obat wasir tradisional
cara mengobati wasir

muhamad mulyanto said...

Obat untuk sakit sipilis
Obat sipilis
Obat sipilis herbal
Obat sipilis tradisional
obat sipilis
obat sipilis herbal
obat sipilis tradisional
cara mengobati sipilis
obat sipilis tradisional manjur
obat sipilis tradisional manjur
pengobatan sipilis
pengobatan sipilis
obat sipilis | cara mengobati sipilis
obat sipilis | cara mengobati sipilis
obat ampuh penyakit sipilis
obat ampuh penyakit sipilis
cara mengobati sipilis pada wanita
cara mengobati sipilis pada wanita
penyakit sipilis
penyakit sipilis
obat sipilis

muhamad mulyanto said...

pengobatan tradisional sipilis
pengobatan tradisional sipilis
obat sipilis herbal
obat sipilis tradisional
sipilis
obat sipilis
sipilis penyakit menular
sipilis penyakit menular
obat sipilis
obat sipilis
obat sipilis ampuh
obat sipilis ampuh
pengobatan sipilis
obat sipilis
obat sipilis dan cara mengobati sipilis
obat sipilis
obat sipilis
obat sipilis
obat sipilis
obat sipilis
obat sipilis herbal
obat sipilis tradisional

teguh wibowo said...

obat ampuh sipilis untuk laki laki
obat ampuh sipilis untuk laki laki
obat sipilis
obat sipilis herbal
obat sipilis tradisional
cara mengobati sipilis
cara mengobati sipilis ampuh
obat sipilis
obat sipilis herbal
obat sipilis tradisional
sipilis
penyakit sipilis
obat sipilis
obat untuk sipilis
obat sipilis
obat sipilis
obat sipilis
tips mengobati sipilis
obat atasi sipilis
obat sipilis
obat sipilis
obat sipilis apotik
obat sipilis
obat sipilis herbal
obat kutil kelamin
obat kutil kelamin herbal
obat kutil kelamin tradisional
cara mengobati kutil kelamin

teguh wibowo said...

obat sipilis ampuh tanpa ke dokter
obat sipilis ampuh tanpa ke dokter
obat sipilis
obat sipilis herbal
obat sipilis tradisional
cara mengobati sipilis
obat ampuh penyakit sipilis
obat ampuh penyakit sipilis
obat sipilis
obat sipilis bagus dan manjur
obat sipilis bagus dan manjur
obat sipilis
cara mengobati sipilis pada wanita
cara mengobati sipilis pada wanita
gejala yang di timbulkan sipilis
gejala yang di timbulkan sipilis
obat herbal untuk sipilis
obat sipilis tradisional
obat sipilis
obat sipilis ampuh
pengobatan sipilis
obat sipilis herbal
obat sipilis herbal
obat sipilis
obat sipilis tradisional

teguh wibowo said...

obat untuk penyakit kutil kelamin
obat untuk penyakit kutil kelamin
obat kutil kelamin herbal
obat kutil kelamin tradisonal
obat kutil kelamin
cara mengobati kutil kelamin
obat penyakit kutil kelamin ampuh
obat kutil kelamin
obat kutil kelamin herbal
obat kutil kelamin tradisional
obat penyakit kutil kelamin ampuh
pengobatan kutil kelamin
pengobatan kutil kelamin
cara mengobati gejala kutil kelamin
cara mengobati gejala kutil kelamin
kutil kelamin atau jengger ayam
kutil kelamin atau jengger ayam
cara terbaik atasi kutil kelamin
cara terbaik atasi kutil kelamin
obat kutil kelamin
obat kutil kelamin tradisional
obat kutil kelamin herbal
obat kutil kelamin ampuh
obat kutil kelamin ampuh
obat herbal atasi kutil kelamin dengan cepat
obat herbal atasi kutil kelamin dengan cepat
obat kutil kelamin
obat kutil kelamin herbal
obat kutil kelamin tradisional

mistersipilis said...

obat wasir
obat wasir herbal
obat wasir ampuh
obat wasir tanpa operasi
obat wasir tradisional
cara mengobati wasir
cara mengobati wasir tanpa operasi
obat wasir manjur
obat wasir tanpa operasi
obat ambeien
obat ambeien herbal
obat ambeien tradisional
obat tradisional
cara mengobati ambeien
cara mengobati ambeien tanpa operasi

salep kutil kelamin said...

ciri-ciri kutil kelamin dan obatnya, obat kutil kelamin yang ada di apotik, Obat kutil kelamin pria dan wanita, obat kutil kelamin yang super herbal manjur, obat untuk kutil kelamin perah dan herbal

teguh wibowo said...

obat sipilis
obat sipilis herbal
obat sipilis tradisional
obat dan raja singa
obat sipilis
obat sipilis herbal
obat sipilis tradisional
obat dan raja singa
jual obat sipilis
obat sipilis
obat sipilis dan raja singa
obat sipilis
obat sipilis
obat sipilis
obat sipilis
obat sipilis
obat sipilis
obat sipilis herbal
obat sipilis
obat sipilis
obat sipilis
obat sipilis
obat sipilis
obat wasir
obat wasir herbal
obat wasir tradisional
obat ambeien
obat ambeien herbal
obat ambeien tradisional
cara mengobati wasir
obat wasir
obat wasir herbal
obat wasir tradisional
obat ambeien
obat ambeien herbal
obat ambeien tradisional
cara mengobati wasir

mistersipilis said...

obat sipilis atau gonore de nature
obat sipilis atau gonore de nature
obat sipilis
obat sipilis herbal
obat sipilis tradisional
obat kencing nanah atau sipilis ampuh
obat kencing nanah atau sipilis ampuh
cara mengobati penyakit sipilis
cara mengobati penyakit sipilis
obat bagus untuk sipilis
obat bagus untuk sipilis
obat sipilis super
obat sipilis super
obat sipilis herbal di apotik
obat sipilis herbal di apotik
obat sipilis
obat sipilis herbal
obat sipilis tradisional
jual obat sipilis
obat sipilis
obat sipilis

teguh wibowo said...

obat sipilis yang alami
obat sipilis
obat sipilis herbal
obat sipilis tradisional
obat sipilis yang alami
obat sipilis ampuh
obat sipilis
obat sipilis herbal
obat sipilis tradisional
pengobatan herbal obat sipilis
pengobatan herbal obat sipilis
cara mudah atasi sipilis
obat sipilis ampuh alami
obat sipilis ampuh alami
obat sipilis herbal
obat sipilis herbal
obat sipilis
obat sipilis herbal
obat sipilis tradisional
pengobatan sipilis ampuh
obat sipilis
obat sipilis

mistersipilis said...

Cara mengobati sipilis | obat sipilis
Cara mengobati sipilis | obat sipilis
obat sipilis
obat sipilis herbal
obat sipilis tradisional
cara mengobati sipilis
cara mengobati sipilis
obat sipilis
obat sipilis bernanah
obat sipilis bernanah
obat sipilis
Jual obat sipilis
Jual obat sipilis
obat sipilis
obat sipilis mujarab
obat sipilis mujarab
obat sipilis
pengobatan alami untuk sipilis
pengobatan alami untuk sipilis
obat sipilis
obat sipilis
obat sipilis
obat sipilis
obat sipilis
obat sipilis herbal
obat sipilis tradisional

mengobati penyakit wasir said...

Lori's working on this? No wonder she's been too busy to grab dinner.

obat tradisional tumor otak | obat kanker Prostat stadium 2 | obat kanker usus | obat tumor otak stadium 1 | Obat tradisional ampuh untuk kanker | kutil di dekat kemaluan | obat cina untuk kutil kelamin | obat kutil kelamin dokter | obat kutil pada kemaluan pria | pengobatan kutil kemaluan | Diare penyebab wasir | Mengobati penyakit wasir secara alami | obat alami untuk wasir berdarah | obat herbal menghilangkan benjolan wasir
obat tradisional tumor Paru paru | obat kanker Prostat stadium 3 | Obat kanker yang alami | obat tumor otak stadium 2 | Obat Tradisional Kanker Stadium 1 2 3 4 | kutil di dikemaluan | obat herbal untuk gejala kutil kelamin | obat kutil kelamin efektif | obat kutil pada kemaluan pria | pengobatan kutil kemaluan | gejala sakit ambeien | mengobati penyakit wasir | obat alami wasir ambeien | obat herbal menghilangkan benjolan wasir

Obat kutil kelamin herbal tradisional said...

Obat kutil kelamin
Obat kutil kelamin herbal
Obat kutil kelamin tradisional De nature
Obat kutil kelamin
Cara mengobati kutil kelamin

Teguh slow down said...

obat kutil kelamin untuk pria dan wanita ampuh
obat kutil kelamin untuk pria dan wanita ampuh
obat kutil kelamin
obat kutil kelamin herbal
obat kutil kelamin tradisional
pengobatan gejala kutil kelamin
pengobatan gejala kutil kelamin
obat kutil kelamin | cara mengobati kutil kelamin
obat kutil kelamin | cara mengobati kutil kelamin
obat kutil kelamin
obat kutil kelamin
cara mengobati kutil kelamin
cara mengobati kutil kelamin
obat kutil kelamin
obat kutil kelamin
penyakit kutil kelamin
penyakit kutil kelamin
obat kutil kelamin
obat kutil kelamin

Teguh slow down said...

obat kutil kelamin untuk pria dan wanita ampuh
obat kutil kelamin untuk pria dan wanita ampuh
obat kutil kelamin
obat kutil kelamin herbal
obat kutil kelamin tradisional
pengobatan gejala kutil kelamin
pengobatan gejala kutil kelamin
obat kutil kelamin | cara mengobati kutil kelamin
obat kutil kelamin | cara mengobati kutil kelamin
obat kutil kelamin
obat kutil kelamin
cara mengobati kutil kelamin
cara mengobati kutil kelamin
obat kutil kelamin
obat kutil kelamin
penyakit kutil kelamin
penyakit kutil kelamin
obat kutil kelamin
obat kutil kelamin

Master Online said...

This was a fantastic article. Really loved reading your we blog post. The information was very informative and helpful...

Obat sipilis manjur dan ampuh
Cara Pengobatan Kencing Nanah Mujarab
Pengobatan Gonore Paling Manjur
Obat Untuk Kutil Kemaluan Tanpa Operasi
Harga Obat Sifilis
Harga Obat Gonore Herbal
Ramuan Obat Gonore Tradisional
Harga Obat Kondiloma Akuminata
Harga Obat Klamidia Tradisional
Pengobatan Alami Ampuh Kutil Kelamin
Cara Mengobati Sipilis Tanpa Ke Dokter
Mengobati Kutil Kelamin Dengan Cepat
Obat Herpes Atau Dompo
Harga Obat Jengger Ayam Herbal

teguh wibowo said...

Obat kanker
Obat kanker herbal
Obat kanker tradisional
Obat kanker otak
Obat kanker payudara
Obat wasir
Obat wasir herbal
Obat wasir tradisional
cara mengobati wasir
Obat wasir
obat kutil kelamin
obat kutil kelamin herbal
obat kutil kelamin tradisional
cara mengobati kutil kelamin

Teguh slow down said...

obat kutil untuk wanita hamil
obat kutil kelamin
cara mengobati kutil kelamin
obat kutil kelamin
pengobatan kutil kelamin
cara alami atasi kutil kelamin | obat kutil kelamin
obat kutil kelamin
cara mengobati kutil kelamin
obat herbal alami untuk kutil kelamin
obat kutil kelamin
obat kutil kelamin | cara mengobati kutil kelamin
obat kutil kelamin
cara mengobati kutil kelamin
obat kutil kelamin
obat kutil kelamin

Teguh slow down said...

obat kutil untuk wanita hamil
obat kutil kelamin
cara mengobati kutil kelamin
obat kutil kelamin
pengobatan kutil kelamin
cara alami atasi kutil kelamin | obat kutil kelamin
obat kutil kelamin
cara mengobati kutil kelamin
obat herbal alami untuk kutil kelamin
obat kutil kelamin
obat kutil kelamin | cara mengobati kutil kelamin
obat kutil kelamin
cara mengobati kutil kelamin
obat kutil kelamin
obat kutil kelamin

fikri ilham said...

hancurkan kutil kelamin dalam 3 hari
pengobatan kutil kelamin
obat kutil kelamin manjur
obat kutil kelamin
obat kutil kelamin
pengobatan kutil kelamin
obat herbal rontokkan kutil kelamin
obat kutil kelamin di apotik
obat manjur kutil kelamin
obat kutil kelamin manjur
obat alami hancurkan kutil kelamin
pengobatan manjur kutil kelamin
obat kutil kelamin herbal
obat herbal atasi kutil kelamin
obat kutil kelamin
obat kutil kelamin manjur
obat kutil kelamin herbal asli

teguh wibowo said...

obat wasir tanpa operasi | solusi tepat atasi wasir
cara mengobati wasir
obat wasir tradisional ampuh
obat wasir herbal ampuh
cara mengobati wasir dengan cepat
obat wasir manjur
pengobatan wasir
obat wasir ampuh
obat kencing nanah termanjur
obat kencing yang sakit dan keluar nanah
pengobatan kencing nanah manjur
cara mengobati kencing nanah
jual obat kencing nanah herbal
obat kencing nanah herbal
obat kencing nanahpengobatan terbaik sipilis dari De Nature
pengobatan ampuh sipilis dan raja singa
pengobatan tradisional sipilis
cara mengobati sipilis pada wanita
gejala sipilis dan cara mengobatinya
obat sipilis murah untuk wanita
obat sipilis ampuh sembuhkan dalam 3 hari
obat kencing nanah

teguh wibowo said...

Obat kutil kelamin herbal de nature
Obat kutil kelamin
cara mengobati kutil kelamin
pengobatan kutil kelamin
Obat sipilis herbal de nature
Obat sipilis
cara mengobati sipilis
pengobatan sipilis
Obat herpes genital
Obat herpes genital
cara mengobati herpes genital
pengobatan herpes genital